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Dry sump

 
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RbbugBiTme



Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 31
Location: Philadelphia/Yardley

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:37 pm    Post subject: Dry sump Reply with quote

Hey

Just wondering why there are no posts here?

I guess I'll share my goal for this year. I'm going to make a dry sump system for a KA24. Any of you guys have experience with this? I am teaching myself ProE and SolidWorks so I'll use one of them to design some of the parts.

One of the problems I'm going to run into is the driveshaft angle. I obviously would like to lower the engine along with the dry sump so I need to figure out how to keep the driveshaft happy. I'm not sure if a 1 piece will solve all my problems but I'd like to figure out how to keep the 2 piece as well.

Please chime in with any comments...
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Scooter



Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 18
Location: San Diego/Santa Cruz

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A much bigger problem than the driveshaft will be the bottom of the bellhousing. You're gonna need to find a way to modify it. It's already the lowest part of the drivetrain and lowering the engine will make this even worse. And I personally don't want my bellhousing being the lowest part of my car.
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Wiisass
Head suspension nerd


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 131
Location: Philly

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no posts in this section because I'm not too much of an engine guy. I'd rather have someone else that I know and trust take care of that part for me.

But a dry sump is something I have been thinking about. I'm always looking for cheap pumps on ebay. I was thinking of mounting the pump where the ac compressor used to be and using the part on the crank pulley meant for the ac belt to drive it. Making a pan shouldn't be too bad.

But like Scooter said, the bellhousing is low. So I don't know the best way to deal with that. Maybe I'll remember and take some time to look at an some of the stuff we have at the shop right now.

I also don't know how much of an issue the driveshaft angle would be. I mean how much lower do you think you can get the engine? And over the whole distance what would be the increase in angle? Even at the tranny end of it, it might not be enough to need to do anything, then again, I don't know how much you could really drop the engine.

As for actual experience, we ran a dry sump on our FSAE car for the past several years, I think 5 or 6. I don't know, they started doing it before I started doing formula. It worked pretty well, allowed us to get the engine pretty low. I didn't mess around with it too much. We did have some trouble with the breather setup and the tank over flowing one year, but I think we got that fixed. I can't remember what pumps we used in the past, we might have actually made them, but this past year we used a Dailey Engineering Pump and it was pretty awesome.

But it's definitely a good idea with some bugs to be worked out. Keep us posted with how things are going.

Tim
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RbbugBiTme



Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 31
Location: Philadelphia/Yardley

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah our Formula team has a dry sump setup as well I'll be looking at very closely. I remember them dynoing that with crank scraper and seeing some large gains last year.

Since I don't have a 240 yet I didn't think about the bell housing. Even if it proves impossible to lower the engine I would probably still make the dry sump just for my own benefit and make it available to everyone if they really want it. I'd like to get into road racing when I have the money and losing an engine to oil starvation isn't in my future plans right now.
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Scooter



Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 18
Location: San Diego/Santa Cruz

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.drysump.com/pan16.htm
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RbbugBiTme



Joined: 15 Jan 2007
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Location: Philadelphia/Yardley

PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw that and I hope I can make my own for less than $500 Shocked
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Wiisass
Head suspension nerd


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 131
Location: Philly

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the pan would be one of the easier parts to make out of all of this. Besides the flange, it could all be done in-house. You would just need some aluminum sheet, a way to bend it and a good tig. And then just put on your fittings, do the baffling and weld it to the flange. And you could even make all the tanks on your own if you had the right tools. And then you would just need some bracket made to bolt a pump to the side of the block and a belt. And if you used a similar pulley to what was on the AC compressor, then you could just use that drive on the crank pulley. And then just mount everything else and run your plumbing and it should be done. Of course it might be a little more complicated than this when you're really trying to do it.
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Scooter



Joined: 12 Nov 2006
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Location: San Diego/Santa Cruz

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote






Those are pics some guy on Ka-t.org posted of his motor. I dunno anything about dry sumps, except that motor has one. haha

Looks nice to the untrained eye. I suspect it actually is a nice setup too.
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Wiisass
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if it's a Peterson pump as well, and who made the oil pan. The oil pan looks like it could be a little shallower, but that may just be the way it looks in the pictures. But it does look like a pretty nice setup. Peterson makes nice parts. But I wonder why he mounted the pump in the alternator spot. I mean if it's going in a drag car and he's not using the alternator anyway, I guess it makes some sense. But why not just mount it where the condenser usually mounts.
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