TIP Engineering Forum Index TIP Engineering
Theory In Practice
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

240sx Bilstein App

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TIP Engineering Forum Index -> Good Vibrations
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
AceInHole



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:17 pm    Post subject: 240sx Bilstein App Reply with quote

Was looking around for Bilstein stuff and came across this write up:

http://www.240sxracing.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35&start=0

Seems interesting, as I've never seen an inverted monotube shock insert before. I'd wonder about converting that to an adjustable shock by changing the internal piston, and using ASN take-aparts for the rears. Could even take that strut body and just weld a bracket onto it and call it a day, or even run a threaded body over the entire thing and have lower mount adjustment. I'm hoping the guy updates it more in the near future.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wiisass
Head suspension nerd


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 131
Location: Philly

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only think I don't like about those is the amount of work to get it to work well with a lowered car. I mean those are probably OE length and for anything we're doing, they're going to need to be a good bit shorter. I'm sure you could do something with the housing but then you would just be taking up the stroke when you should be shortening the body as well. I don't know if you would want to weld brackets directly onto the housing that comes with the struts. Due to the bending loads the strut will see, they were probably designed to use the OE strut tube as well as that housing. But then again, I can't tell much from the pictures.

Even with that said, I would like to get my hands on a set of these to take apart and mess around with. If the availability of shims for the 36mm piston is as great and easy as shims for the 46mm piston then valving these for whatever would be no problem. Calling Bilstein is still on my to do list for prices on some of their new stuff and I'll find out if there's anyway we can get these in the US. I know they still come up on the German sites database, but there's nothing for a 240 on the US site. So that could mean many things, but they shouldn't be too hard to get either way.

For the rear, you could use the OE replacement one so there are no problems with bolting up to the rear. Because that lower pin is something like 7/8" OD and the SN series dampers only have a 1/2" eye at the bottom and there's not enough material down there to bore it out to fit. So using the replacement damper would make things easier in that respect. And then you would just have to worry about the height issues and valving shouldn't be a problem. They should use all the same stuff that the SN series dampers use, so any adjustable shaft, piston, shim, whatever should be available. You could even do what some of the supra guys have done and weld a bung on the bottom so it can be charged or so you can have an external reservoir. I'm sure you could do the same for the fronts on the top somewhere.

Something like this could probably work real well at least for people that are serious. Most people will get turned off by the single height adjustability, but then again, if you can get them at about the right height out of the box, you really don't need the extra adjustability. I mean everyone pretty much runs there cars as low as they can get them anyway.

Tim
_________________
TIP Engineering
Just put the TIP in.
R&D, damper development and fabrication.

jrud@tipengr.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Wiisass
Head suspension nerd


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 131
Location: Philly

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was running some tests on the ST bars tonight and looking through some of my old spreadsheets. And I came across some notes to look into other possible strut inserts to use for this same purpose. There are probably other cars that use a similar style insert that are shorter in overalll length and can be easily made to work whether with the OE strut housing modified slightly or with new custom housings (basically a tube with ears). Now I just need to find out what uses a 36mm piston inverted monotube strut insert that is readily available from Bilstein.

And another thing about the strut inserts and revalving them. The addition of a schrader valve or external reservoir that I mentioned in the previous post is going to be necessary if I remember what Bilstein told me correctly. I had talked with them about a year ago about any possibility of a take apart strut and they said that although the struts could be disassembled and revalved, recharging them is a problem. They need a special machine or tooling that is proprietary to do it. Or something along those lines. So the addition of a valve would be necessary in order to put gas back into these things. But that shouldn't be a problem at all as long as there's a place that a valve can go on the insert.
_________________
TIP Engineering
Just put the TIP in.
R&D, damper development and fabrication.

jrud@tipengr.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
AceInHole



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On craigslist (LA) there's a set of "Bilsteins" for the S14 that I'm trying to pick up. Hopefully they'll be actual Bilsteins, in which case I'll have something to experiment with.

As for the SN/ ASN's, couldn't you weld a new mount to the bottom of it (perhaps a z32 fork mount?).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wiisass
Head suspension nerd


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 131
Location: Philly

PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could weld a new lower mount on them. It just makes things easier if you don't have to make and weld on lower mounts. But then there's still the chance that you could find something that uses the same lower mount that is a little closer to the OA length that you're looking for. When I had talked to Koni, I think they said if I wanted something shorter for the rear out of their OE fitment catalog, one generation of eclipse uses shorter dampers with the same lower mount as the s-chassis.
_________________
TIP Engineering
Just put the TIP in.
R&D, damper development and fabrication.

jrud@tipengr.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
AceInHole



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that for the S13 or S14?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AceInHole



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another thing I noticed:

D2 coilovers (and some others) supposedly have a 44mm piston size. Koni inserts have a 43.5mm OD. Could just swap some Koni 8611's in and call it a day....

Can anyone verify the ID of a D2/ Ksport shock body? Tim: take that D2 apart, otherwise I'll probably take the grinder to one of mine!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wiisass
Head suspension nerd


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 131
Location: Philly

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PJ the eclipse reference was for the s13, but I'm sure there's another car that uses something in similar size and mounting to the s14. It would be nice if we could find out what uses a z32 lower mount and would work well on the cars. I know the Z32 stuff works for s13's but it's still OE length, so something a little shorter than that for both s13 and s14 would be awesome.

I think there might be differences in lengths that you can't get past with the D2 and putting an 86 series in there. I'll have to double check the measurements, but if it would work, it would be almost too easy.
_________________
TIP Engineering
Just put the TIP in.
R&D, damper development and fabrication.

jrud@tipengr.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TIP Engineering Forum Index -> Good Vibrations All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group