TIP Engineering Forum Index TIP Engineering
Theory In Practice
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Damper Modeling

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TIP Engineering Forum Index -> The Theory
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Wiisass
Head suspension nerd


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 131
Location: Philly

PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:33 am    Post subject: Damper Modeling Reply with quote

Just a little idea on the plans for our damper design. I have been working on figuring out characteristic curves for different suspensions. I have a spreadsheet that makes it easy to calculate what amount of damping is needed based on car specifications. This makes it easy to adjust for the same car with different corner weights or unsprung weights. This allows for calculations of ideal curves for each specific car. And will let me design the best damper for each car.

I have also been working on a Simulink model with another guy from the formula team that allows the input of data from the spreadsheet calculations. Then accelerations and road profile data is added to the model and the behavior of the sprung and unsprung mass based on the suspension specifications can be examined.

Once the ideal damper has been designed using these models and the intent of the car, a real damper will be assembled. I have not yet decided on what pieces I have will be using. But I will most likely start off with a simple Bilstein take apart damper. I am also looking into other damper manufacturers to provide the parts that I need. Once I have acquired the necessary pieces, the damper will be put together and dyno tested. I am planning on purchasing a Roehrig shock dyno so I can test each damper built in house. I will use the data from the testing in the Simulink model to verify correct operation.

Once this has been done and all 4 dampers have been built, they will be tested on the car. This will verify the model and make sure that everything that was designed is right. Hopefully, I will be able to acquire a data acq system to quantitatively measure the performance of the damper. This testing is mainly for the verification of the model. Once that has proven correct for a given car, the specs on the car can be changed and the damper can be designed with the new specs and it will perform as intended.

These models and testing will be used in the design of each damper for each car. The different specs will be set based on the intended use of the damper. This model will also be used to select spring rates for each car. This plan leaves incredible amounts of freedom when designing a suspension for each car.

I hope that this design and analysis will be worth it when these spring/damper systems are built. They will perform as specified. They will most likely start as non-adjustable at a market competitive price. With options for rebound and compression adjustment at a higher price. I also hope to compare my design with the design of many of the other manufacturers offerings.

Any feedback on this plan would be greatly appreciate it. I mean there's no reason to do this without having people that would be interested in purchasing these systems.

More details on actual offerings will be put in the products section.
_________________
TIP Engineering
Just put the TIP in.
R&D, damper development and fabrication.

jrud@tipengr.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Wiisass
Head suspension nerd


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 131
Location: Philly

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been really busy the past couple months and haven't had time to get started on this stuff in the past month or so. I have worked out the numbers for the MA70 supra coilovers and the parts for the shocks have been ordered. They should be here in the next week and then they will get built and dynoed. I hope to have them on the car shortly after. I will post more updates once the parts arrive and I get a chance to build and test them.

I am also making progress with the JZA80 Supra kit, I'm just need to take a couple more measurements and get the car on the scales. But it will be very similar to the MA70 kit.

I still need to take some more measurements for the S13 kit and design the front strut mounts. The design will most likely be an inverted strut in the front.

More updates will follow shortly, hopefully.

Tim
_________________
TIP Engineering
Just put the TIP in.
R&D, damper development and fabrication.

jrud@tipengr.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Wiisass
Head suspension nerd


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 131
Location: Philly

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another update. Things have been going well with the Supra dampers. I have had them on the dyno several times in an effort to get the curves that I want. Unfortunately, the shims that I got with the Bilstein package are not stiff enough for what I want to run. I have different shims on order and they should be here at the beginning of next week. Once they get here, I have no doubt that the damping will be finalized and everything will almost be ready to go.

I'm still working on the design of the upper mounts. I had originially hoped that using modified stock upper mounts would work out, but now I'm leaning towards something custom. The new mounts would utilize the bearings already on the dampers. They will also make the removal of the damper for tuning adjustments very quick and easy.

Spring are an issue I'm still not 100% finalized on. As of now, I will be using 8" hypercoils with helper springs. The helper springs may not be necessary down the road, but for now, I need them to make sure that we are able to get the car at the desired ride height. In the future another method for achieving this may present itself, but for now I feel comfortable with this way.

Once this stuff is finished, the system will be on the car and tested.

I also wanted to add that I have been uploading pics of some of the work into the gallery.
http://www.theoryinpracticeengineering.com/gallery/album/
_________________
TIP Engineering
Just put the TIP in.
R&D, damper development and fabrication.

jrud@tipengr.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
bettonracing



Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm interested in a 4-way adustable S13 kit for track (road race) use only (slicks). Is there anything I could be doing to help ease Your R&D process in the future?...

I had planned on reverse engineering the S13 suspension geometry but have decided to use those resources on something more "interesting"... If there is enough interest (in going much faster than stock in an S13), I could be persuaded to follow up on those initial intentions...

Time trials anyone?...

Kurt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wiisass
Head suspension nerd


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
Posts: 131
Location: Philly

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4-way adjustable would be nice, but it starts to get expensive. With how things have been progressing on my end, I am looking at a base non-adjustable setup, a rebound adjustable setup and then a 2-way and a 3-way adjustable setup. I have a lot of experience with the non-adjustable valving from my work on the supra dampers. But Bilstein also makes an adjustable shaft that I have yet to have the pleasure of messing around with. And then Penske makes some very nice compression adjusters that can easily be fitted in place of the schrader valve on the dampers I'm building. So the only thing you wouldn't have would be high speed rebound which for the most part, you won't need to touch as long as the base valving is good.

As for reverse engineering the S13 suspension. It would be nice if someone could get a points list for everything. But that's a ton of work and probably not worth it in the long run. Many things can be measured that will give you a good idea on how the suspension behaves which is usually more than enough. But what's this more "interesting" project you're working on now?

I will be doing time trials next year, mainly in the form of hill climbs. And then doing whatever track events I can get the car to. And of course some drifting because it's fun and that's where a lot of my market comes from.

Tim
_________________
TIP Engineering
Just put the TIP in.
R&D, damper development and fabrication.

jrud@tipengr.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TIP Engineering Forum Index -> The Theory All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group